πŸ’ Belgium declares loot boxes gambling and therefore illegal | Hacker News

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Most people probably enjoy that part, and these games can become quite addicting. Why or why not are trading card games gambling? 41 comments. share.


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why are trading cards not gambling

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If it's purely virtual, it's not gambling but just part of the game. (you can To me, that sounds like the optimal way to play trading card games.


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why are trading cards not gambling

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β€œI would not put this form of collecting trading cards in the gambling category.” I was this way as a kid into my teens. But there are collectors who.


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are gambling. You buy them with real money not knowing what is inside. Full Date. Would this also apply to baseball/hockey card packs? 9.


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are gambling. You buy them with real money not knowing what is inside. Full Date. Would this also apply to baseball/hockey card packs? 9.


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are gambling. You buy them with real money not knowing what is inside. Full Date. Would this also apply to baseball/hockey card packs? 9.


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If it's purely virtual, it's not gambling but just part of the game. (you can To me, that sounds like the optimal way to play trading card games.


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With all the pain and no gain, we contend it actually makes loot boxes worse than gambling. Optimised Psychological Systems. As we've pointed.


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The ESRB has cleared this up by stating plainly that they do not consider loot boxes a form of gambling, more resembling buying trading cards.


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are gambling. You buy them with real money not knowing what is inside. Full Date. Would this also apply to baseball/hockey card packs? 9.


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why are trading cards not gambling

Gambling systems designed to hit every known behavioral reinforcement schedule, interactive videos and graphics to make it immersive. I don't know if it factors in here much, but another point is that you also generally can't re-sell items from loot boxes, whereas at least you can sell the cards afterwards to help defray costs. Currently in the Netherlands it's required for the proceeds of loot boxes to be tradeable in the real world, giving them economic value, for it to be considered gambling. Daishiman on Apr 27, You think it's wrong to copy in paper another game that tries to profit off artificial scarcity? That was gambling too under this definition. Should we in-game purchases for those in-game items too, under the premise that purchasing them is unbounded, unhealthy and addictive? Yet again and again they'd do it. To me, that sounds like the optimal way to play trading card games. Parent didn't say it was a problem, just stated a preference. Casinos do add to that risk in some non-zero way. In other words, players can participate by gambling real money in return for less or more real money. Sharlin on Apr 26, It bothered me back then, and I wasn't alone. Obviously the objections to pokemon cards never reached any sort of critical mass as objections to loot boxes seem to be. This has become a more pronounced issue as realistic counterfeits of Magic: The Gathering cards that are no longer in print and in some cases cost more than a car are starting to appear on the market. I'll play a free game that is monetized via loot boxes. Personally, I believe casinos pose a risk of not only spending money, but also exposure to much more harmful activities drugs, prostitution, violence. The cards were semi-randomly distributed in the packs in the factory, just like these loot boxes are semi-randomly generated by an algorithm. That's why I have a separate opinion on loot crates vs casinos. I don't think you'll find very many people in here arguing that anti-child labor laws are a bad thing, so I find your comment a bit of a red-herring.

IkmoIkmo on Apr 26, Netherlands is close to drawing similar conclusions. No money changes hands, we're never going to try and pass off these obvious printouts as anything other than playtesting.

Why should anyone besides my guardian decide whether or not that counts as "unhealthy, addictive behavior"? I guess what I am getting at is that loot crates can only be a waste of money, but kids already spend their money on other "wasteful" activities like purchasing video games, so why should there be any difference just because the mechanics of the game are different?

Game C is half-price, and has half-price loot boxes. I thought that was interesting, and I think I agree. And bracketron lux in coal mines.

Those cards also took up space and had to be kept organized to keep track of valued vs non-valued cards. Just feels bad. For me personally it's about double dipping. They are not equivalent. You why are trading cards not gambling buy, using real money, a virtual ticket for a virtual item. It drastically slows down one's ability to get themselves into trouble.

Continue reading B is free, but the loot boxes cost. Then that virtual item can in turn often be sold to others for real money.

That sounds like a problem with paid loot-boxes, not "double-dipping". Why are trading cards not gambling it also a regression when governments around the world banned children from gambling in casinos?

And it makes sense. I think it says more about how little friction why are trading cards not gambling is to click a button, spend money, and get a loot box vs walking to the store with cash in hand to get a physical pack of cards.

I could have bought a nearly endless supply of these in-game items that really served no purpose just as much as people do with loot crates.

I've been buying games for 30 years good grief and suddenly they want me to pay inside the game.

And you'd pay, not knowing what you'd get. In short, it is gambling. Different jurisdictions feel differently about this, I'm sure.

My point is that phone games don't add to the risk being near any of any of these actually harmful to a minor activities. I saw my friends spend their allowance on those packs of cards, open them up, then become disappointed because they only received "trash". Spending money on virtual games is miles away from child labor. I am concerned about social media and games that only implement stick and carrot mechanisms to maximize the time children spend in front of them. My entire childhood was filled with opaque plastic packs of cards, pokemon cards, football cards etc. Since the odds can be manipulated from moment to moment, there is no way to know if game C really has half-price loot boxes. And virtually all countries make gambling illegal for minors, and there's currently no working mechanism in play for 15 year olds not to be able to play these games. But I won't buy a game that then requires me to buy loot boxes to do better in the game because in my mind I already paid for the game and shouldn't have to pay any more. But why should these crates be legislated, just because their outcome is random? What would help stay legit is for the games to prevent loot box items from being traded between characters at all. From the sarcasm I am assuming you disagree with me. Maybe that says something about differences between the two industries, or maybe that says something about how society has progressed in the past two decades. I agree with you that video games can be unhealthy. Invalid for tournament play, certainly, but between two kids for playground bragging rights, not invalid if the people playing the game agree beforehand. Game A costs, but the loot is free. The problem is that it didn't matter for the Dutch government whether the items were traded on external platforms which are often in violation of the games EULA itself , or on a platform of the game itself. It seemed totally irrational to me. Does it really present any more harm than video games and in-game purchases in general? Nobody would card me when going to a bar, brothel or when buying drugs But entering a casino? Copyright infringement: every parent's worst nightmare. Interesting ethics you have there - and also sounds like the biggest school bully would win. JackCh on Apr 26, I came to the conclusion that industry was gambling when I was a kid. There would be no way to know. Collecting a series of stamps or collecting cards are very different from a dopamine drip which sits on your phone and can follow you everywhere. If it's purely virtual, it's not gambling but just part of the game. It lasted a week before other parents were incredibly annoyed by this. They can be detected by a trained eye, but to they look "close enough" to a casual or even sharp observer. Loot boxes might be double-priced even if the game is free by your same logic. Barrin92 on Apr 26, I for example don't have a problem with video games that foster creativity, problem solving and leave children with genuinely satisfying experiences. It took a lot of work to get that hit of dopamine, whereas now a year-old kid can sit down at a computer and within 30 seconds start dumping tons of money into loot boxes. If anyone can print the cards and therefore play the deck that they want then the game comes down to a limited amount of luck as decks are randomized before play and skill in both play and construction of decks. It's a mid-point between A and B. Just figured I'd expound on the ethics - both societal and personal - around this topic since you questioned them. Collectible cards and loot boxes are similar the same way ancient alchemists are like a modern pharmaceutical company. UI UX design intended to be easier than using horrid things like paper cards. You didn't know which 5 cards were in there. Why is C a problem? I spent a good amount of money on pay-to-win games when I was younger buying weapon upgrades, more materials, gold, etc , the only difference was that the exact item was listed-- no surprises. While the people producing the cards and discussing their quality often say "these cards are intended for use in decks but not to trade or sale as if they were real cards", some in the wider Magic: The Gathering community feel very strongly that legal action should be taken against the producers, sellers, and in some cases, even the users of these cards. I think that the premise is a little weaker for straight up purchases because the uncertainty associated with gambling is what makes it so exciting, but yes if we would observe that a lots of children or families are unable to manage their finances and that this negatively impacts the financial behaviour of especially young adults, sure I don't see any problem with regulating them and limiting the use of those mechanisms in videogames. Not all countries make gambling illegal, but those who do, should treat loot boxes the same. SV spends all its time to make frictionless interaction pushing people to manage their actions. On a practical side, using non-genuine, non-WotC produced cards is against sanctioned tournament rules - from Friday Night Magic up to the Pro Tour, but what right do others have to tell me what I can and cannot allow in non-sanctioned play or at Commander night with my friends? Here's the weird thing though. I agree with them. Aaaaand they kept paying a lot of euros to buy real ones. I don't mind paying for good content, but pay to win is a deal breaker. Specifically with the section about printing your own decks at home to play with friends. CPLX on Apr 26, There's something fundamentally different about the dynamic when you have to actually go out into the real world, get a store, etc.